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Is this Morgan graded correctly?
jphendren
Posts: 75
Hello,
I've decided to start another CC Morgan collection, so I went down to my local coin shop. I told myself that I would not buy any raw coins as my grading skills are not the best. I was looking for slabbed or GSA, but they only had super high end slabbed CC Morgans at the time, way out of my budget. So against my better judgement I gave in and bought this 1879 CC. The coin store graded it F12, which from looking at photo's of PCGS/NGC graded F12 coins it does seem fairly close. I also asked the store Numismatist to assure me that the surfaces are original and not been tampered with, he looked with a loupe and strong light and assured me they were. Tell me what you think?
Here is the obverse. From studying images of TPG service F12 Morgans, this coin looks pretty equal as far as Liberties ear, hair, wheat stalks go. But the rim in front of Liberties face is worn. The rim is still complete (hard to see in this photo), but faint. I don't know if that disqualifies this coin as a Fine grade coin. I hope not.
Here is the reverse.
Jared
I've decided to start another CC Morgan collection, so I went down to my local coin shop. I told myself that I would not buy any raw coins as my grading skills are not the best. I was looking for slabbed or GSA, but they only had super high end slabbed CC Morgans at the time, way out of my budget. So against my better judgement I gave in and bought this 1879 CC. The coin store graded it F12, which from looking at photo's of PCGS/NGC graded F12 coins it does seem fairly close. I also asked the store Numismatist to assure me that the surfaces are original and not been tampered with, he looked with a loupe and strong light and assured me they were. Tell me what you think?
Here is the obverse. From studying images of TPG service F12 Morgans, this coin looks pretty equal as far as Liberties ear, hair, wheat stalks go. But the rim in front of Liberties face is worn. The rim is still complete (hard to see in this photo), but faint. I don't know if that disqualifies this coin as a Fine grade coin. I hope not.
Here is the reverse.
Jared
0
Comments
bob
Most of the key wear points on the coin (cotton bolls and wing tips) do say it is a Fine, but much of the left half of the obverse rim is badly worn... down to Good-06 in some areas.
I think VG10 is a more accurate representation of this coin. The coin, by the way, is priced as a VF.
I can't argue with your other points, but the online PCGS price guide has this coin listed in F12 as $245. Is that price guide not accurate? Is it only good for PCGS slabbed coins? I'm not sure, that is why I am asking. I noticed the rim wear initially, but at the time it didn't dawn on me that it would pull the grade down as the other areas of the coin definitely look Fine 12 to me. I guess that is why I should stick to slabbed coins from PCGS or NGC.
Jared
Also look into PCGS coinfacts to have their auction archive information. Guides are guides, auction history is the latest realized price.
Happy New Year!
Eric
eBay
Jared
But those could be defects in the 2x2 plastic that are being reflected off the flash.
How does it look without the cellophane wrapper?
As for the price, that is IMO what you would pay at a B&M.
The best you could have done is maybe $200, if you were a regular.
And the filled "G" in GOD
I would love to call this a Vam-3A (a nice premium there)
As it is the only Vam with filled "G" in GOD
But I don't want to get your hopes up.
I would need a better image of the mm, and other diagnostics.
Vam 3A
Edited to add
The Vam 3 also has a filled "G" in GOD in LDS and is a Top 100
but again would need better pics.
<< <i>Yours seems nicer than the PCGS graded on in this link. But I am not sure of those scratches on the left obverse though.
eBay >>
I dunno - I'd take the PCGS circ-cam look any day over this. I do not like these surfaces.
Happy New Year!
Eric
Jared
OR, save up for one like this; It took me some time to do it but I like it
<--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -
For readily available coins in the market place, PCGS price guide tends to be about 50% above wholesale. Or another way of putting it, a dealer would typically pay 65-75% of PCGS price guide for nice quality, very liquid, and desireable coins....like a nice circ 79-cc $. Divide price guide by 1.5 to get you in the ball park for routinely traded/available coins. This number will vary with market strength and the series/date in question.
<< <i>
<< <i>Given some of the wierdness of the mintmark especially the "c" on the right (seems thicker and more ragged.)
And the filled "G" in GOD
I would love to call this a Vam-3A (a nice premium there)
As it is the only Vam with filled "G" in GOD
But I don't want to get your hopes up.
I would need a better image of the mm, and other diagnostics.
Vam 3A
Edited to add
The Vam 3 also has a filled "G" in GOD in LDS and is a Top 100
but again would need better pics. >>
the G has nothing to do what makes vam 3-a.
it was the 2 gouges i saw. 1 at the base of A2 and 1 just a bit southwest coming out of the wing. there are a couple other diagnostics but they are subsequent to the gouges. (at least for now)
but since the cc on the coin in the OP isn't blundered all this is moot.
edited to add: i just checked the folder with the dozens of images for my discovery and i also confirm that the V3 and V3A both have a filled G. now the question is; does any 3A have a clear G?
I have also been approved to feature it as VOTW on 1-6-13
. >>
We would need a better image of the mintmark, before calling this.
As stated above in my previous post............twice.
<< <i>We would need a better image of the mintmark, before calling this.
As stated above in my previous post............twice. >>
you may.
i don't
.
<--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -
Thanks for all of your input. So the general consensus is that it may, or may not grade F 12, but that it is definitely genuine. As far as the VAM-3 issue is concerned, here is he best I can do as far as a picture of the mintmark.
Here is mine.
Here is a known VAM-3 in a PCGS holder.
Jared
That may sound like a cop out answer, but this coin in the 180-220 range is a pass- I don't even need to get into the grade
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